Bernie Sanders: ‘I hope for a revolution within the Democratic Party’

American senator and two-time presidential candidate Bernie Sanders is traveling to the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany this week to promote his book It’s okay to be angry at capitalism, in the recently published Dutch translation. After arriving at Schiphol on Sunday morning, they “slept for a few hours”, says his wife Jane in their hotel, after which he was a guest in Outside court and just over an hour later, three interviews in a row awaited him. The 82-year-old nonpartisan senator fires off his answers at a rapid pace.

If you had been a member of the House of Representatives, would you have voted with Democrats to strip Republican Kevin McCarthy of his presidency?

“Of course.”

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Even if that paralyzes politics?

“The problem was that because of his weak position, seven or eight radical representatives on the right wing held the Republican Party and thus the entire House hostage. These are people who want to make massive cuts to programs that benefit the working class.”

And now?

“Now the question is whether there are enough moderate Republicans who are willing to work with the Democrats. It doesn’t look like it.”

And vice versa.

“Whether there are Democrats who want to help moderate Republicans?”

If you want to avoid the House being held hostage by extremists…

“I spoke to the Democratic leader in the House, Hakeem Jeffries, who said, I’m not sure how this will turn out.”

In your book you are critical of Republicans, but also of Democrats, with their strong ties to the business community and their millionaire financiers.

“Oh, you can’t imagine how much time Democratic candidates spend raking in donations from rich people.”

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So what makes McCarthy a worse Speaker of the House than Democrat Nancy Pelosi?

“I often strongly disagree with Nancy Pelosi, but she has shown that she strongly supports civil rights, women’s rights, LGBTQI+ rights. McCarthy is a Trump supporter and acted worthlessly when the debt ceiling was reached. (The ‘debt ceiling’ is a limit on the loans the US government can take out. If that is reached and Congress does not agree to an increase, the federal government can no longer issue money. The Republicans under McCarthy refused for a long time to votes, ed.)

What we see in the auto industry – the huge salaries at the top, workers left behind – is also happening in the rest of America

“My criticism of the Democratic Party is that it no longer supports the working class in the US. The party should open itself again to young people, to workers, and move with them in a new direction. I hope for a revolution within the Democratic Party.”

Is it in sight?

“Something very interesting is happening right now. Strikes are underway in many sectors of the American economy, led by very good union leaders. The auto workers in Detroit, nurses, doctors even who want to form a union. The leader of the large Teamsters union, Sean O’Brien, only had to threaten a strike against delivery service UPS or the company would change tack. Now parcel deliverers have the best contract in years.

“I was in Detroit and spoke with strike leader Shawn Fain. He succeeds in elevating the fight of his members to the fight of the American working class. Everything we see in the auto industry, the huge salaries at the top, with employee wages falling further and further behind, is also happening in the rest of America.”

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Shawn Fain is taking a more militant course with the UAW than before.” class=”dmt-article-suggestion__image” src=”https://images.nrc.nl/oyF8HJTyq7ZbtUtPoMp1s8YOmR4=/160×96/smart/filters:no_upscale()/s3/static.nrc.nl/images/gn4/stripped/data105913087-75cf59.jpg”/>

In your book you recommend that the Democratic Party side with the unions. President Biden…

“Yes! Yes! Biden recently traveled to Detroit to support the union. It’s something, isn’t it? That is unprecedented.”

You write that most Americans are sympathetic to higher wages and better insurance for workers. How do you explain why many workers have crossed over to Donald Trump’s Republican Party?

“No one will vote for the Republican Party because they want to cut social benefits or health insurance. 90 percent of Americans are against that. They get worker votes because of her stance on gun control, abortion or other more cultural issues.

“If Democrats want to win back those voters, they need to do exactly what Biden did: roll up their sleeves and look for issues that affect workers. Why do Americans pay more than twice as much on average for health care as you do here? Why are 85 million people uninsured or underinsured? Why isn’t education free? Why is childcare crumbling?”

And yet support for Trump in polls remains about the same as for Biden.

“The ‘Democratic Party’ brand has been weakened. People no longer believe in that – and that goes beyond the US. Does the Parti Socialiste still exist in France?”

You write that important questions in the American public debate remain unasked. Such as: ‘How can politicians make the fossil industry accountable for damage to the environment and climate change?’

“Do you remember in the 1990s when prosecutors from several states sued the tobacco industry? The top executives of the major cigarette brands have finally admitted what they had denied for years: that smoking causes cancer. And they have paid off billions and billions in damages claims.

You have to tell those bastards – excuse me – you can’t keep destroying the planet

“Not long ago, Minnesota Chief Attorney Keith Ellison did the same thing to the oil and gas companies. As taxpayers, we must pay billions to try to mitigate the effects of climate change. These companies are doing the same thing the tobacco industry did at the time: lying that they do not know that the emissions from their product have a negative impact on the climate. In fact, they’ve known that since, I think, the 1960s. The prosecutor has classified them as a criminal organization. You have to tell those bastards – excuse me – you can’t keep destroying the planet.”

Your publisher said you were not interested in questions about the age of President Biden, who you support in his re-election. You are two years older than him. Do you see someone in the political or social arena who can take over from you?

“When I was first elected to the House of Representatives in 1990, I founded the Progressive Caucus. There were five people in there at the time. Now there are more than a hundred of them. Brilliant, fierce, amazing people fighting for economic justice, for the environment and against racism. Most people know who Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is, but there are now many more like her. There is an exciting dynamic in the progressive movement.”

Postscript (October 19, 2023): Bernie Sanders said in this interview that 85 million people are uninsured. That should have been: not or underinsured, as he writes in his book. That has been adjusted above.

Bernie Sanders: It’s okay to be angry at capitalism. (It’s OK to be angry about capitalism) Translation Manon Verhagen. Bot publishers, 365 pages. €25.

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